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Talk:SPARTAN-II Program
Class-II Although Halopedia has decided to remain largely ambiguous about the canonicity of the Class-II SPARTAN-IIs, I feel that we may have to look into the matter again. #"Kelly had always been the fastest in their class."Halo: Evolutions - page 348 This is something John-117 thinks. He doesn't know of the SPARTAN-III program, therefore suggesting "class II". #Although Halsey's funding was largely redirected to S-III, evidence suggests that when Alpha company was destroyed in 2537, she received enough funding for a class-II. This is shown by Yasmine Zaman being kidnapped for a SPARTAN program at age 6 and dying at age 14 in 2545, during augmentation procedures.i love beesHalo: Ghosts of Onyx ##Keep in mind that when Kurt-051 thinks that there will only be one class of SPARTAN-II, this is several years before their conscription. #The "Personnel Intel reports" refer to Jorge-052 as a member of "the class of '25". If there was only one class of S-IIs to successfully be trained, why didn't they just call him a SPARTAN-II?Bungie.net Intel on Jorge-052 #Although Bungie originally designated "i love bees" as non-canon, they changed their minds later. They then said that they decided to have a canon expanded universe, and directly referred to ILB as canon. Keep in mind that this is the same speech that confirmed the novels as canon. ##Furthermore, the "Personnel Intel" and "Palace Hotel" suggestions are directly from Bungie. calculation 28 SPARTAN-IIs are said to be at Reach - three of whom are at Gamma station. Excluding the secret "Black team", there are 33 SPARTAN-IIs officially surviving the augmentation process and remaining S-IIs. *From these 33, we remove "Sam", "Sheila"; "Solomon"; "Arthur"; "Cal" and "Randall" who are dead. That makes 27 at Reach. *Then, we subtract Jorge and Kurt, who were kidnapped. That's 25. *Maria retired. That's 24. *Mike; Adriana and Jai of Gray team were not at Reach. *Red team members "Douglas"; "Jerome" and "Alice" have been MIA since 2531. That makes 18 S-IIs officially available for Reach, and 15 officially on Reach - I don't know about "Keiichi"; "Daisy"; "Joseph" and "Ralph". Therefore; if Class-II exists, at least 13 SPARTAN-IIs must be class-II. Please comment here.-- Forerun ' 15:02, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Sources Discussion Just a side note, I don't think the B.net page with the information on the Reach characters is intended to be an excerpt from the CAA factbook. The factbook's in its own separate section and I doubt the colonial government would have files on individual Spartans like Jorge. As seen here, the information on the Reach "characters" page is likely intended to be from a military performance report, not the factbook which seems more like a civilian document. As for Class-II, the evidence seems solid. It's not 100% sure until they say it directly, but since ILB has been declared canon at least on some level, the existence of Class-II would make sense. --Jugus (Talk | ) 15:04, June 23, 2010 (UTC) :Sorry about that CAA thing - I just noticed when you pointed it out. Anyway, we ''still have a lot of people who say that it's non-canon. Just look at the class-II section in the archive. I just felt that I should point out instances where it appears to be a confirmation.-- 'Forerun'' ' 15:07, June 23, 2010 (UTC) ::When meeting each other, the generic multiplayer Spartans in ''Halo Wars occasionally say, "Another 2525 graduate, huh?". Like with Jorge's performance report, why say that unless there's another class? The original S-IIs did believe more Spartans were on the way, which was why Mendez left, which shows that they at least thought a second class existed. As for the number of S-IIs at Reach: Joseph, Daisy, and Ralph were reinstated after being retrieved; later, Daisy and Ralph died in the Harvest Campaign. However, as noted in Ralph's article, he was discharged after later augmentations. Scratch two more from the Autumn's contingent, ostensibly giving us 13 available Spartans. As many have theorized, Maria was almost certainly the one who was wounded beyond recovery; however, whether this is the true story or a cover for an ONI experiment *coughSPARTAN-2.1cough* is as yet unkown. Here's a counter argument: if some of the Spartans in Red Team during the Fall of Reach were indeed replacements from Class II, why wouldn't the others make any note of it? Keep in mind, however, that the re-relase of TFoR should finally resolve the numbers discrepancy, but don't get your hopes up for anything on the class of 2536. One more thing: Nassau Station - Nicole's stage from DoA 4 - was shown in the last issue of Uprising, so Class II could, hypothetically, experience a similar fate. --"Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have." -Thomas Jefferson 17:32, June 23, 2010 (UTC) :::Perhaps. I just hope that the class of '45 and the extra SPARTANs be recognised.-- 'Forerun'' ' 17:39, June 23, 2010 (UTC) Hey, just wanted to contribute to this discussion, I have some replies to your 'Class II' blurb, Forerunner. For your first point I would like to suggest that John-117 is not suggesting a Class II with his statement. He is simply referencing that they were in a class together, noting that they were part of the same group. For example, if a school opens in the fall of 2009 and you graduate as the smartest member of your class in the spring of 2010 and the school closes in the summer of 2010, you are still the smartest member of your class despite the fact that there have been no subsequent classes at all. To describe themselves as a class puts the Spartan's in a group and differentiates them from the rest of their fellow service men and women in the UNSC. To your second point, about Yasmine being from class II, do we know that for certain? The inauguration of Beta Company of Spartan III's was in 2537, the same year she was abducted, and she died in 2545, which is the earliest known date of Beta Company SIII being active.(Source is the date in the letter from LTCR. Kurt Ambrose to SCPO Franklin Mendez) Beta company could have finished been augmented and then in the feild in 2545, which is 6 years after their inauguration, lining up with the training time of Alpha Company SIII. To your third point, when CNL. Holland refers to Jorge as a graduate of the class of '25 remember that he also commands SIII's as the rest of the unit. Thus he would have knowledge of the Spartan III program. Perhaps to him a Spartan is a Spartan, regardless if they are SII or SIII and in order to distinguish them in his report, he distinguishes them from the year they 'graduated' from their class. Hope that all makes sense, Cheers, Rimnek 015 05:31, September 2, 2010 (UTC) Survivors I did some calculations and I found out that (possibly) 20 SPARTANS are alive. John, Fred, Kelly, Linda, the six members of omega team (again possibly since there is is no explanation if they died), Jerome, Douglas, Alice, the 3 members of Gray team, and the 4 members of black team.﻿ :I did calculations a year back, I got: *John; Fred; Kelly; Linda - 2552 survivors *Dogulas; Alice; Jerome - Red Team cryo-tube survivors, MIA *Jai; Adriana; Mike - Grey team, MIA *Four members of Black Team *Maria - retired This makes as many as fifteen survivors, with the statuses of Grey team and Maria being unknown as of 2551 and 2552, respectively. It's best to assume that all are dead and find survivors; I originally did the whole 33-*each individual SPARTAN* to work out how many could be at Reach, but let's try it, anyway: *Grey team wasn't there - 30 *Three Red team survivors weren't - 27 *Black team wasn't, either - 24 *Neither was Maria - 23 *Or Kurt - 22 *Solomon; Arthur and Sheila died defending and rescuing Halsey - 19 *Cal died in an assassination - 18 *Don't forget Sam! - 17 ''note: Daisy and the other escapees may suggest that the actual augmentation success figures were larger, but were lowered because of their escapes. Because of this, I prefer not to count them. Keiichi and an unnamed SPARTAN only appear in a potentially-non-canon advertisement for Halo Wars and will again be unmarked - the unnamed SPARTAN may in fact be one of the characters in ''Homecomming, due to the striking similarities in the end to that episode.'' Based on this, there was a minimum of seventeen S-IIs from class-I ready for Operation: RED FLAG, an a maximum of twenty-three. Either way, there is still room for class-II replacements.-- 'Forerun'' '' 20:41, May 5, 2011 (UTC)'' What about Omega team we never know what happens to them. They were never on reach because if they were there should have been an omega team. Maybe they were with Spirit of Fire the whole time but at a different place. ::Omega team was a Red team splinter that lleft Arcadia after their mission was over. Some of them may very well be SPARRAN-II characters we know of, and thus cannot be counted.-- Forerun '' 15:54, May 6, 2011 (UTC) 6 years of age source Okay, sorry to bug anyone, but I was kind of wondering how do we know that all 75 spartans are 6, I mean, there must be some 5 and 7 year olds in the mix, so I was wondering what the 6 years of age source was, please reply, thank you. (Jamesgg521 01:28, August 17, 2010 (UTC)) :2511 seems to be used as the birthyear for all - it really should be "c. 2511". Fall of Reach refers to them as six in 2517, and they are referred to as all being 14 in 2525 just before augmentations (First Strike). This is likely just an average age - obviously some are older than others and at least one was bound to be 7 at the beginning. -- Forerunner 01:34, August 17, 2010 (UTC) :It is stated in the Fall of Reach that all chosen SPARTAN-II's were taken from a very select group of age, and gene specific group of children, to fit Dr. Halsey's plan for them. And they are all stated as being 6 years old in Chapter 3 of the Fall of Reach. VadersFist666 01:36, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::I recall that a couple were listed as being slightly younger or older. Darthkenobi0(talk) 01:43, August 17, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes it is unlikely that halsey would have ruled a candidate with a perfect genetic profile out because they were a few months off the preferd ageM1c00l 21:31, January 24, 2012 (UTC) Able to be infected? Johnson was a Spartan-I, and his bio-augmentations rendered him immune to the flood, but if the Spartan-IIs recieved the same or better augmentations, why wasn't John-117 immune to the flood infection as well,as on page 323 of The Flood it states the infection form had already shoved the penetrator in when Cortan zapped it. Why were John's superiorly augmentated genes able to be mutated but not Johnson's? The differences and similarities between John and Johnson's augmented charictaristics would logically make John's neurological system to appear to have recieved "irreparrable damage" as well as Johnson's. --Turbogruntman117 14:51, August 20, 2010 (UTC) :His SPARTAN-I augmentations did not make him immune from the Flood; the so-called Flood-proof Boren Syndrome is simply a cover-up by ONI to hide off actual information about the SPARTAN-I. Every human is susceptible to being a Flood host, even SPARTANs. Why Johnson is not infected in Halo: Combat Evolved can be explained in Halo Graphic Novel; in the story, we can see that Johnson shrugged off the Infection Form, thus saved from transforming into a Flood form.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 14:58, August 20, 2010 (UTC) : :So you are saying that everyone and everything else that did become flood infected did so because thay did'nt do enough 'shrugging'?I think the truth is in the boren syndrome, perhaps its life threatening, possibally terminal, a reason the infection forms passed him up but he would still be considered a threat, that made him a target for the combat forms. :"they passed me up like I was undercooked spinach in turkey dinner"- Sgt Johnson, Halo First Strike. Realisticaly the infection forms would come at u like the face huggers from Aliens cept these came at u by the hundredsDARKSTORM99 18:28, August 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Yes. This makes everything you know redundant and false.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 18:31, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Number of Spartans in FOR/FS and the Rest of the Universe Hello all. With the current buzz about Halo: Reach it got me thinking about the story of Reach that we know so far, and got me thinking about some discrepancies in the number of Spartans II’s present on Reach during Reach’s fall. I originally jumped on the ‘Number of Spartan II’s is messed up’ bandwagon when I considered a machinima depicting the Beta team of Spartans defending the generators. I wanted to make it as canon as possible and so wanted to make sure I got the number of Spartans down pat. Having recently read through the relevant sections of the books, I did some math and thought I could enlighten you as to my results. So when I added up all of the Spartans on the list provided in the article that made it through augmentation, I got 36 Spartans total, not that far off the mark of what FOR and FS state, which is 33. 7 Spartans are KIA pre-FOR: Daisy-023, Sam-034, Solomon-069, Arthur-079, Cal-141, Ralph 303 and Sheila 1 Spartan is Ret/WIA pre-FOR: Maria-062 3 Spartans are MIA pre-FOR: Kurt-051, Jorge-052 and Randall Therefore 11 Spartans are KIA/WIA/MIA before the Fall of Reach leaving 25 Spartans alive for Reach, Close to the FOR statement of 28, but off of the FS insinuation of 30 3 Spartans are on a mission too far to be recalled pre-FOR: Jai-006, Adriana-111 and Mike (Gray Team) 3 Spartans are possibly on board the Spirit of Fire pre-FOR: Douglas-042, Jerome-092 and Alice 130 (Halo Wars-Red Team) 4 Spartans are in an unknown location pre-FOR: Black One, Black Two, Black Three and Victor-101 (Black Team) (This is where it starts to get hairy!) Therefore; 22 Spartans are available to be on Reach if only Gray team is missing but HW-Red Team and Black Team are present. 19 Spartans are available to be on Reach if Gray Team and HW-Red Team are missing but Black Team is present. 18 Spartans are available to be on Reach if Gray Team and Black Team are missing but HW-Red Team is present. 15 Spartans are available to be on Reach if Gray team, HW-Red Team and Black Team are all missing. Moving on to the Fall of Reach 3 Spartans Deploy to Gamma Station: Linda-058, John-117 and James (Blue Team) Therefore Red team has; 19 Spartans if only Gray team is missing but HW-Red Team and Black Team are present. 16 Spartans if Gray Team and HW-Red Team are missing but Black Team is present. 15 Spartans if Gray Team and Black Team are missing but HW-Red Team is present. 12 if Gray team, HW-Red Team and Black Team are all missing. 4 Spartans are KIA during the drop to the surface: Malcolm-059 and 3 others Therefore the number of Spartans that survive the drop are; 15 Spartans if only Gray team is missing but HW-Red Team and Black Team are present. 12 Spartans if Gray Team and HW-Red Team are missing but Black Team is present. 11 Spartans if Gray Team and Black Team are missing but HW-Red Team is present. 8 Spartans if Gray team, HW-Red Team and Black Team are all missing. Red team is split up; 3 Spartans form Team Alpha: Joshua-029, Kelly-087 and Fred-104 3 Spartans form Team Gamma: Li-008, Anton-044 and Grace-093 6 Spartans form Team Delta: Vinh-030, Isaac-039, Will-043 and 3 others Therefore Team Beta is composed of; 3 Spartans if only Gray team is missing but HW-Red Team and Black Team are present. 0 Spartans if Gray Team and HW-Red Team are missing but Black Team is present. -1 Spartan if Gray Team and Black Team are missing but HW-Red Team is present. -4 Spartans if Gray team, HW-Red Team and Black Team are all missing. I think according to the information that we have available here; it is most likely that Black Team and HW-Red Team were present during the Fall of Reach. However there is still room for Speculation; If FOR is right and there are 25 Spartans not including Gray team, then there are 3 more Spartans that need to be accounted for/named. If this is the case then it would push the number of Spartans that survived Augmentation to 39. It would also mean that Beta Team would have 6 members. If FS is right and there are 30 Spartans not including Gray team, then there would be 8 more Spartans that need to be accounted for/named. If this is the case then it would push the number of Spartans that survived Augmentation to 44. This would also mean that Beta Team would have 11 members. I think of the two possible scenarios, the 25 Spartans mentioned in FOR is probably the most accurate. This also works if you take into account 30 deaths during Augmentation and 6 Disabled: Rene-005, Kirk-018, Soren-066, Cassandra-075 and Fhajad-084. This adds up to a total of 74 Spartans, leaving room for one more. I think also that it was more likely that more Spartans were crippled than were killed, so some of the Spartan’s in the ‘died during Augmentation’ category were actually misapplied and did not die but were crippled and fall into the disabled category. Some questions I hope that would be answered are: -What is the official number of Spartan II’s on Reach participating in Dr. Halsey’s Mission? Which Canon Source is correct, the canon compilation by fans, FOR or FS? -Was Black Team present on Reach when it fell? -Was the Halo-Wars Red Team on Reach when it fell? -If Black Team/and or the HW-Red Team were not present, on Reach, who was to fill their spots? -Are Black Team/and or HW-Red Team actually Canon? -What is the total number of Spartan II’s? How many were crippled by the Augmentation? How many were killed by it? sdsHow Many ‘Graduated’? Thats all for now, Cheers, Rimnek 015 06:50, September 2, 2010 (UTC) :I don't have any of the comics, but from memory reading the article I think Black Team was excluded from the official roster, declared "dead" during augmentation and reassigned and reequipped separately from the rest of the Spartan-II's. Both Black Team and the original Red Team are canon, as much as some people would like to ignore them, though some of the aesthetic additions are not - shields, for example. I doubt Red Team would have been on Reach - they were left drifting in space thousands of lightyears from human space, too far for a retrieval force to find them. As for the official "canon" number of Spartans in total, who survived augmentation, and survived until 2552 - the numbers are so contradictory that I find myself hard pressed to consider the original figures still canon. -- Specops306 Autocrat Qur'a 'Morhek 08:08, September 2, 2010 (UTC) Just occured to me while reading, the list of S-IIs is missing Unnamed Spartan (Harvest) And Yes I know his existance is disputed, but he is canon. SomethingDifferent 11:09, September 9, 2010 (UTC) As indicated in Hasley's journal she cryo'd some of their dead SPARTANs and indicates ONI will most likely eventually revive them. I sense implied Black Team origins.SpartanSeries2 22:21, September 18, 2010 (UTC) Possible fix for SPARTANs on Reach On that same note, roughly 12 SPARTANs are known to have been disabled due to augmentation. We must exclude Cassandra because as of 2552 she still has not returned to active duty. If all of these SPARTANs were able to be rehabbed (Hasley has specific notes discussing how to rehab at least 3) and these were added to the "15 only possible" mentioned in this article then that would equal out to roughly 26 bringing the number of surviving SPARTANs back in line with the Halo Wars timeline number and the only discrepancy being Hasley's claim of on 5 having met there ends. Perhaps this is the solution to this seemingly impossible to solve problem? SpartanSeries2 22:28, September 18, 2010 (UTC) Ralph-303 Not a SPARTAN at time of death, may I remove him form the "Confusion on Spartan #'s" bit and edit the section accordingly? SpartanSeries2 00:06, September 19, 2010 (UTC) : I second that. --LOST-The Cartographer 00:47, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :: I'm going to go ahead, in case anyone has a problem with it I'll leave the original unaltered section here. SpartanSeries2 00:59, September 19, 2010 (UTC) Old version of the Paragraphs I edited in SPARTAN-IIs Conscripted: The status of the SPARTAN-IIs is even further skewed by Halo Legends. In the anime series, eight SPARTAN-IIs are introduced: Cal-141, Solomon-069, Arthur-079, Daisy-023, Ralph-303, Joseph-122, and two unnamed SPARTANs. Seven of the eight SPARTAN-IIs are killed in their respective episodes: Cal-141 is killed by a Jiralhanae chieftain in The Babysitter, putting her death between 2540 and late 2551.The Babysitter - Taylor H. "Dutch" Miles, who enlisted in September 2540, witnessed Cal's death. Cal wears Mark IV MJOLIR armor; the Mark V was introduced in November 2551. Solomon-069 and Arthur-079 are killed in a mission that takes place in 2544, as seen in The Package. The two unnamed escapees from the SPARTAN-II Program commit suicide in 2525. Daisy-023 and Ralph-303 are killed during the Harvest Campaign between 2526 and 2531. Joseph-122 is recaptured into UNSC custody, although he is not mentioned again during the episode. This completely contradicts Halsey's statements about about three SPARTAN-IIs being KIA between 2542 and 2552, and it further skews the total number of SPARTAN-IIs present at Reach. If Samuel-034, Randall, Sheila, Kurt-051, Maria-062, Douglas-042, Jerome-092, Alice-130, Cal-141, Solomon-069, Arthur-079, Daisy-023, Ralph-303, the two unnamed SPARTANs who commited suicide, and the three members of Gray Team are removed from the count of 33 surviving SPARTAN-IIs mentioned in The Fall of Reach, only fifteen SPARTAN-IIs could have been present at the Fall of Reach. Furthermore, because Jorge-052 served with Noble Team during the Fall of Reach, the Pillar of Autumn could have deployed no more than fourteen SPARTAN-IIs: three to Gamma Station and the remaining eleven to the surface of Reach. Fhajad What does "Image shown in Halsey's Journal for rehab." means? That he's back on active duty as a Spartan? --[[User:NuparuMahnika|''Nup]](T) 03:47, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :On the April 1st 2525 entry she has a drawing on how to realign Fajad's femur (the same section mentions that rehab'd SPARTANs may re-enter in full service). I just noticed there's no "H" in the name and that a femur deformation doesn't fit the reason he failed as per FoR. How shall we act? I believe an Admin is necessary as to "Determine" if this is a spelling error within her journal or discussing a different SPARTAN entirely. SpartanSeries2 04:29, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::I think common sense is enough to determine it. I highly doubt there were two separate Spartans named "Fajad" and "Fhajad". It's obviously a spelling error. --Jugus (Talk | ) 14:00, September 19, 2010 (UTC) :::*points at Tom-292 and Thom-A293*'' ;) - 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 14:02, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::Well, still. I can see "Thom" and "Tom" being far more common names than "Fhajad" or "Fajad". Plus, the S-III program had a lot more candidates, so having similar names among them is more likely.--Jugus (Talk | ) 14:05, September 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::Two washouts from the same program with near identical names sounds odd to me, considering there were only 12 due to augmentations disabling them and 2 would have near the same name.SpartanSeries2 02:56, September 20, 2010 (UTC) :It is actually quite possible that Fhajad have a femur deformity. He was wheelchair-bound, after all. And I don't think that's due to the Parkinson's Disease. --[[User:NuparuMahnika|''Nup]](T) 11:58, September 20, 2010 (UTC) numbers fixed just read halseys journal, and it seems the beginnings of a retcon to fix the number of spartans has been implemented, talk or rehablitation for some of the damaged spartans and resusitation of the dead ones. If some spartans were resusitated/repaired, and the very small number salvaged from the failed class 2. It seems that all is right with the halo universe, or at least will be. Horay for retcons good folks. ralok 03:35, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Well Heres a Question, What about Noble Team from Reach (Game), only one is listed here? Should All Spartans be listed. Just wondering? :All of Noble Team are SPARTAN-IIIs. Jorge is the only II. Matt 2108 06:59, September 29, 2010 (UTC) "Warthog Equals Spartan-III?!?! Just caught this little bit while reading about the Tribute Room. Just this little sentence effectively de-canonizes all of Spartan-II Class II. While you might argue that the Tribute Room, as an Easter Egg, is effectively non-canon, Halsey here is indeed speaking in-character here and throughout her entire log, and it seems unusual that Bungie would simply blow off an effective de-canonization of Spartan-II Class II simply by saying "It's an Easter Egg, nobody will care!" Based on this, it enforces the previously suspected theory that Class II was indeed permanentely canceled and its mentions in ILB were indeed referring to Spartan-III. Just throwing this out there, and you can say what you will, but this definately looks to be the most blatant of all evidence regarding the fate of Spartan-II Class-II. [[User:Tuckerscreator|Tuckerscreator]](stalk) 05:34, October 8, 2010 (UTC) :It could very well be managed by someone else. ;) :Note the use of 'my' in the sentence. Halsey is quite sensitive when someone meddles around with ''her stuff (i.e. her MJOLNIR V armour modified by Noble Team). Just a thought.- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 12:18, October 9, 2010 (UTC) I kinda assumed the "my program" was creating distinction between II and III... *shrugs* Maybe, but we've never seen anywhere where someone else was suspected to have taken over the project themselves. I'm pretty sure that a Spartan Class II she would know about, but there remains all capacity for her to have remained unaware of Spartan-III. Does Halsey's journal say anything about a Class II? If not, then the rest of evidence with the dates and such seems to confirm its permanent cancelation, at least from a merely elemantary perspective. It's debatable, but it's definately pushing towards this direction. [[User:Tuckerscreator|''Tuckerscreator]](stalk) 20:55, October 9, 2010 (UTC) Professor Agnes and Class-II Has anyone else read the new 2010 Fall of Reach Bonus Content? It seems pretty obvious that Professor Agnes is in charge of Class-II. EchostreamFanJosh :Have you not reconsider that they might be the S-IIIs...- 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 20:26, October 18, 2010 (UTC) ::I thought that was Kurt's job. Mike also knew about these "new children." If Ralph/Daisy did die in 2531, it would match up with the time that Alpha Co was started up. EchostreamFanJosh :::Again, reconsider. :::Take note of the fifth paragraph where they discussed about their position in humanity and should they joined the Flood or the Covenant if they feel humanity is no longer in them. The Flood was unknown to the general humans before the Battle of Installation 04; they are only known after the Battle of Earth. This suggests that the time of the posted letter were after 2552. Note that Halsey was also unaware of the Flood throughout the entire 2552, only to focus on her Forerunner findings under Reach. Also, only some elements of the Spartan-II program were declassified as mentioned in the letter; this suggests that the roster list of the S-II has went public but not everything has been disclosed. It's like the US' Freedom of Information Act where the US Gov. would release old files and what-not to the public after an appropriate number of years, though not everything will be disclosed. :::After seeing the bulletin, Mike, horrified by whatever is written, tried to convince Agnes to be more of a mother than a scientist (makes no sense to me, but ok. Halsey wasn't much of a mother ''*shrugs*). Now, I haven't really answered your question as to whether they are the Class II or simply the S-III. Focus on the following sentence, "There are elements of the '''Spartan program' we still can't discuss openly, stuff Halsey didn't know about, for example..."'' :::What stuff Halsey does not know? She practically knows everything that is happening around her S-II program. She even knows when someone tried to access the network (i.e. Kat accessing the latchkey) even though she's thousands of miles apart. Also, take note that Mike used a general word "Spartan Program" instead of being more specific. If anything, this suggests that Mike is not referring to the S-II, but instead the S-III. The S-III is the only thing Halsey does not have full information on until she travelled to Onyx. She only knows that Ackerson is doing something with the S-III, but are unsure what they are. It also suggests that the S-III indeed continued well after the Great War with Gamma Company, the only company we last heard off after GoO. If anything, Agnes and Mike would have used Halsey's notes from the S-II to assist them in S-III Programme. :::Now, what relationship do Mike and Agnes have with Halsey, if you asked? Scientists are known to have access to files in order to produce the best results they could achieve. Mike and Agnes, being part of the S-III as contracted by Ackerson, gained access to those files though limited to keep them in the loop and to avoid information leak (in other words, give them things that you have control of). One of those files would be Halsey's, as we know Ackerson has attempted numerous times to steal data from the S-II program. Although it is unspecified in the letter about the couple's relationship with Halsey, this assumption is perhaps the best we could rely on so far, that they simply used Halsey's notes as reference. In doing so, they became intrigued with Halsey and tried to understand her better. It's like studying... you become interested, you search for more. :P - 5əb'7aŋk(7alk) 13:42, October 19, 2010 (UTC) ::::I can't really argue with that. But I still think the letter was posted around Ralph's death as Mike had just heard about it. I wonder if we can somehow get an accurate date on when that letter was written. At the moment then, I guess we can only speculate that it's either Spartan-IIIs or Class-IIEchostreamFanJosh ::::who is the tallest sparten Spartan 1.1s appearances Spartans 1.1 disappearance I just re watched halo legends and I now believe that the children in this movie are the children of the first spartans or Orion's like Johnson, the spartan 1.1s disappeared when they joined up together to fight against the covenant. It would make since there is no way that normal children in anyway could hold back a standard brute let alone a super brute that a spartan 2 was having trouble with I know it was 1337 he is still a spartan. Question Alright this might be a dumb question, but how exactly do Spartans.... relieve themselves in their armor suits. That being said though, do they even need to eat or drink like regular humans? 14:23, April 17, 2014 (UTC) In answer to your question, the Spartans are catheterized, so they just go since the armor takes care of it for them.--LZ32 (talk) 19:38, April 18, 2014 (UTC) Hunt the Truth The Hunt the Truth series has recently revealed lots and lots of secrets regarding ONI's massive cover-up of the SPARTAN-II program. I think a new section ought to be added dedicated only to the amount of secrecy surrounding the operation and the recent revelations.